Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

boring

4 messages in this thread | Started on 1999-05-17

[L-USA] boring

From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) | Date: 1999-05-17 01:56:15 UTC-04:00
As those of you on letterbox-vision know, Dan has stated that he
will be removing links to my clues unless I place my clues physically
on his server (rather than using links to my server as I have been
for the past few months). (I'm not sure how this makes the site better,
but its Dan's site and hence Dan's choice). I have been asked by
someone to publicly address the situation, however. Apparently
it is not an issue of content; Dan just wants the clues residing
physically on his server. I'll admit, (as someone who first worked
with the Internet in 1985, is a career internet professional, and
has managed numerous internet servers), that I am at a total loss
as to why Dan cares what server any clues are on, or how this makes
it easier (a link to a local file is just as easy to code as is one
to a remote server).

I will, though, explain why I have chosen to publish my clues on
my server rather than Dan's, and will most likely not reply in
this thread, because, yeah, its boring, and I will have nothing
to add that has not been said a million times to those who are
interested. Had I not been asked, I would not have posted this.
I don't care if you folks link to me or not, its your choice.

Let me first say that I do not really feel a need to justify my decision
as to where I have published my clues. Julie has chosen to publish
her's via e-mail, and we all respect that. Mitch has stated that he
will be making hard links to his server, just like me, and we all
respect that. I don't really care if people publish their clues on
the moon :-), it seems to me its their decision, and we've all
expressed that we are growing weary of the latest rules, but anyway,
here is why I have chosen to publish my clues on my server, and not
move them to Dan's server:

* There is a puzzle (which I now have to reveal the existence of because
of this) that is hidden in the way my clues are hosted. This is part
of the letterboxing game. It would not be possible to implement this
puzzle on Dan's server (or if I did, everyone with access to the server
could solve it just by looking at the files in the public html directory).
Moreover, the puzzle will not mirror. This one reason, which I told the
webmaster, alone, should have been enough. When the decisions of the
webmaster compromise the game, that is too bad :-). I have tried to
use technology to be creative in letterboxing, not let the technology
dictate the type of letterboxing activity that was possible. (Note: I
will be disabling the puzzle until people forget about this :-))).

* It is easier for me to edit and update clues and create new ones.

* It is easier for me to link them to other letterboxing sites,
if any wish to. If there are 3 letterboxing sites, and they all
want copies rather than links of my clues, whenever I make a change,
I have to coordinate with three webmasters. That seems like a hassle,
and I am a busy person. The web uses links for a reason.

* I enjoy looking at the web server log to see what states and countries
people are visiting my clues from. Its sort of like the log book in
the letterbox. This functionality is unavailable to me on Dan's server.

* I envision providing interactive clues powered by cgi scripts. For
example, ask 10 trivia questions, and if you get them all, get a clue
at the end. It is not possible to do this easily with client-side
scripting and be able to keep the user from cheating. With cgi scripts,
it is fairly easy. This functionality is unavailable to me on Dan's
server (and again, if my clues were on 3 other servers, coordinating
this with 3 system administrators would be a nightmare, to say the least).

* If I go AWOL, my server and clues go AWOL. This is a Good Thing. As
for the mirroring argument, if the central server goes down, the links
from the mirror to my server will still work. If my server goes down,
I'm prolly down too, see above. All servers go down once in a while
temporarily, that is a different issue, and means nothing in the context
of these reasons.

* In computer security terms, Dan has created an uncontrollable
circle of trust by giving out passwords to his site to several people,
and by sending his password over the Internet cleartext. While Dan
may trust everyone he gives his password to, I don't even _know_
who has it. They probably all are trustworthy people. But I do
not know them. I do not know if they understand computer security
and good password management. From my point of view, strictly in
computer security terms, I do not have any control over the circle
of trust as to who can modify my clues. In some of my clues, a
seemingly innocuous change will render them useless, forgetting anything
malicious. I may not even notice the change. Am I being paranoid?
Probably, but I've been involved too long with Internet security to
not be. The security situation is unacceptable _to me_, for the
publishing of _my_ clues. Please don't anyone take this personally,
its just technical logic. Since this is not a problem on my server,
my server is a better choice, even if it is not likely to be a problem
on Dan's.

* I spent alot of time developing a little web ring/index of all my
clues. I have a challenge out (in my FAQ) for anyone to try to find
them all, in which case they will get clues to a mystery box. Not
only do I not want to throw work away, an index and web ring of my
clues on Dan's server would look a bit silly. I have gotten some
positive feedback about this little setup.

* Dan has mentioned to me as a reason for wanting all the clues on his
server, and I quote from a message dated 4/23/99:

> I also think that at some point people
> may ask for a printed catalog, say for a given area.
> If we have the clues housed together they can be
> put into a printed format much more easily

I'm sure Dan meant well, but I do not want it to be easy for anyone to
include my clues in print media without my involvement. Assuming my
involvement, it makes no difference what server they are on, as print
and web media are different, would require a whole different approach,
etc. This spooked me though, what difference does the server make?

* Dan has mentioned as a reason for wanting all the clues on one server
as something like 'in case changes need to be made'. I wish to be the
only person making changes to my clues.

* I do not wish to have to deal with being asked to make changes to a
clue in order to get it published. By putting it on my server, I do
not have to risk that hassle.

* I am an Internet professional and sometimes consultant. By keeping
the clues on my server, and running the server, it forces me to stay
in shape with these skills. The practice, even for something this
small, helps in my professional career.

* If for some reason I wish to quit letterboxing and pull my clues,
it is easy for me to do so. I do not anticipate quitting, though.

Folks, it is late and there are probably more reasons. I just cannot
think of them. All I can say is that I am ok if Dan (and you folks)
feel the site is better off without my clues. I still do not understand
why Dan cares. I hope the above makes it clear why I care, if you care,
that is ;-)

Finally, I would like to editorialize about "open". There has been alot
of rhetoric about the site being "open". If the site cannot handle
something like linking to clues on another server, then it is not
open, IMHO. I believe that others who write clues will share at
least one of my reasons for wanting to host them on the server of
their choice, and I feel the site should be able to handle that. Its
better technology if it can. It can now. Even if you folks don't
want to link to me, for whatever reasons, I would recommend a policy
of being open to linking to other clue writers. Think of it like
this: pretend the clue is simply a URL. To be honest, the current
site uses links for all clues, just links to local files. Nothing is
different.

Folks, I'm sorry but this seems sooooo silly :-) Here are the reasons,
though, and I do apologize for the length, but not my decision. If Dan
de-lists me, you are welcome access to all of my clues at

http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/index.html

--
Randy "the mapsurfer"
Orienteer * Letterboxer * Globetrotter
http://www.letterboxing.org/faq.html

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[L-USA] Re: boring

From: Graham Howard (ghh2@tutor.open.ac.uk) | Date: 1999-05-17 10:01:58 UTC+01:00
Dear Danl

May I join in Letterbox-vision ?

I thought I was also in letterbox technology but no messages here either...

I must say that I've been lurking for a long time because, well, as you
and I said a long time ago, Dartmoor Folk have different visions..but well
that may be true..but the core of the hobby is the blue and the green and
the search....and the connection with one another..via tiny boxes in a
huge planet....that's my view...

The UK hobby grew out of the deepest love of a special place (Dartmoor)
and the US hobby is growing from the love and creativity of the arts and
craft movements .....which is also very cool...I love it too...

But over all... this is the community of 'Boxing...great folk all
creative, all with sensitivity and imagination...a very explosive
chemistry at the best of time...Freedom is very hard to keep in strict
containers...so I guess I'm totally amazed to see Randy saying Danl wont
let him be free...

I was not comfotable when there were wars about differing views with Doc
Mings..the wars hurt the hobby...I know which style I enjoy best but also
respect all the ways that freedom must be allowed to blossom...

It seems such a small thing ..yet maybe that's the way big things
start...I hate these wars on the lists...why not link to Randy..what is
the real issue here ..am I, as Brit ,missing something here ?

I like to feel myself an old Amerophile ...I've lived, been educated and
worked in the US most of my working life..and not all of that was as an
adult ...I've been working in the US over the last three weeks and
am off to Africa today then back to UK then another month in US
(Florida/DC/NY/SanFrancisco /Palo Alto..etc) so am also very busy but am
dedicated to this old crazy hobby.....Its about great people with great
spirits like you Danl and Mitch and The Vermont Viking and MixtMedia and
StamperHog and Horsebeads and well, and well a whole heap of just creative
and explosive minds....fabulous....no offence intended by not listing
everyone !

It's bound to be an explosive mix....It's bound to have folk who want to
run their own race...I know you are an organising mind..but do let your
children run free Danl.....They will love you better for that freedom....

Hope my 2cents after such a long break doesn't annoy....I do enjoy reading
this site on the road....and love its ideas and all the work going
on....So do keep up the good work...and Lets all get Letterboxing...


Graham Howard
The Moorland Wizard



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[L-USA] Re: boring

From: (jdewolf@mail.icrsurvey.com) | Date: 1999-05-17 12:19:06 UTC
How can this #$%&%#@ "stuff" be happening behind the scenes in what is purported to be an "open" forum???? (I'm glad someone asked Randy to bring it in the open)

I am REALLY ANGRY at these little wars that are being staged. A highlight of my day, is to check the list and see what's new with this virtual community. I am now noe looking forward to checking in anymore...pitty.

Graham said it best: "Let's all get Letterboxing...:

Maybe we're misinterpreting the boxing part.

Here's hoping we can get back to the fun

JDW
West Chester, PA


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[L-USA] Re: boring

From: (Stamperhog@aol.com) | Date: 1999-05-17 08:48:59 UTC-04:00
OK, so I read it, even tho it WAS marked boring. And I am here to register my
opinion (unsolicited). All I have to say is this:

How RIDICULOUS that there would be letterboxes available in the USA that are
NOT accessible through the Letterboxing USA site! Isn't that the purpose of
this site???? Who CARES how you get the clues........ just GET 'EM!!!!

OK, so shoot me.

Hoggie

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