In a message dated 3/22/99 2:55:44 PM, tcgrafx@imagina.com writes:

>I'll try to remmeber & carry an
>extra bag or two when I check them,
>in case replacements are neccesary
>(one for the dog's leavings, one for
>the letterboxes).

Please don't get these mixed up. ;O)

Michelle
hoofbeads@aol.com

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I have used tupperware, but find that in some instances rodents chew on it
just enough to chew through the seal ridge. Sometimes I find some
inexpesive used ammo cans at a local army surplus store ($2 is a bit high,
but I thought I'd experiment). These seem to work pretty well, they are
rodent proof; if the seal is good, waterproof; and an ecological advantage
is that they won't last forever unmaintained. They have enough space in
them that they can be weighted so that they don't float away easily (good
for placing near streams that flood seasonally). I'm not wedded to them,
but those are some advantages over plastic.

DW

My worry with ammo cans are, the bigger the container the harder they are to
hide without digging, and digging is one thing we don't do in letterboxing

Jay C.
Fredericksburg, VA
The Jolly G-Man
p29 f14 x0
www.1bigred.com/users/jayc/letterbox/

>Sometimes I find some
> inexpesive used ammo cans at a local army surplus store ($2 is a bit high,
> but I thought I'd experiment).

Perhaps I'm in a contrary mood this morning, so beware, but I was unaware
that there was a no digging policy. A few years ago someone was
experimenting with some sort of tube that could with a small hole be
plugged into the ground leaving the opening flush with the surface of the
ground. I don't remember any objections to the experiment. I wonder too,
how the Brits get their letterboxes beneath that clitter on the moor
without removing mineral material and replacing it. I've yet to dig a hole
to plant a letter box, but I have certainly taken dirt from under a stone
to place a plastic container and I would say that's a form of digging. I
think its a bit bold to say, "and digging is one thing we don't do in
letterboxing" (Jay C. , 29 Mar 2001). Perhaps I've
missed something though.

I do agree with the general sentiment that letterboxing should be low
impact and that digging a hole big enough to accommodate an ammo can could
violate that spirit. Sticking one in a rock cairn might or might not be
less degrading depending on the contents of the landscape.

DW

Hi Dennis!
I'm with you..I have not dug a hole to place a box in.I do look for likely
places to "plant" that are already there in the natural surrounding, but I
have moved rocks and deepened the area slightly below them to place a box in
and then covered the box with the rocks to make the "plant" stable and as
natural looking as possible.I want fellow boxers to be able to locate my
boxes after the hunt but also want have them seem invisible to the regular
hiker. It seems to be a sticky issue. I can understand why some could view
our "game, hobby, sport,fun" as littering..I myself am deeply connected to
our open spaces and rejoice while hiking and or 'boxing..it is a tonic to my
soul to step away for a moment or afternoon from the fast paced world we
live in..
Letterboxing has me out on the trails more than ever and I think that's
great for me and the Parks in general.I pick up litter if I come across it
and pack it out and I've become an active enthusiast of open spaces instead
of a passive bystander, that's good for everyone.
I see no reason why we will not be able to interface with the Nat'l. Park
system. We might have to change how and where we plant in that system but it
doesn't have to be the end of 'boxing in those areas.
There are lots of places to "hide" letterboxes and I do not believe we have
touched the surface on that one..
Personally, I like the hike and the hunt and finding a physical box and
stamp.I'm would not choose to look for virtual boxes yet..but then I just
started using a computer at Christmas so who knows..
I believe we have a great thing going but all relationships that last
require some compromise and our relationship with the Nat'l. Park system is
worth the effort to keep the lines of communication open between us.
Great 'boxing to all!! See Joy

P.S. The Dollar Store boxes ($1- each) I've found seem to have a good seal,
the needed space for stamp,postcards,letterbox explanations,pencil and 3x5
logbook, I do double bag paper goods using zip lock double guard freezer
bags.

>From: Dennis Williams
>Reply-To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
>To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [LbNA] Re:containers
>Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:33:55 -0600
>
>Perhaps I'm in a contrary mood this morning, so beware, but I was unaware
>that there was a no digging policy. A few years ago someone was
>experimenting with some sort of tube that could with a small hole be
>plugged into the ground leaving the opening flush with the surface of the
>ground. I don't remember any objections to the experiment. I wonder too,
>how the Brits get their letterboxes beneath that clitter on the moor
>without removing mineral material and replacing it. I've yet to dig a hole
>to plant a letter box, but I have certainly taken dirt from under a stone
>to place a plastic container and I would say that's a form of digging. I
>think its a bit bold to say, "and digging is one thing we don't do in
>letterboxing" (Jay C. , 29 Mar 2001). Perhaps I've
>missed something though.
>
>I do agree with the general sentiment that letterboxing should be low
>impact and that digging a hole big enough to accommodate an ammo can could
>violate that spirit. Sticking one in a rock cairn might or might not be
>less degrading depending on the contents of the landscape.
>
>DW
>

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At 07:33 AM 3/30/01 -0600, DW wrote:

>I think its a bit bold to say, "and digging is one thing we don't do in
>letterboxing" (Jay C. , 29 Mar 2001). Perhaps I've
>missed something though.

This is just one man's opinion, but I always thought the ban on digging referred to *finding* letterboxes. I.e., you should never have to take a shovel with you to find one. Within reasonable limits, it's always seemed more or less OK to me to "improve on nature" a little bit by enlarging a niche in a boulder field, or moving some leaf litter to one side, or (yes) extracting a quantity of mineral soil sufficient to accommodate the shape of a small storage container from under a rock. The digging that we don't do, I've always thought, is in the context of finding, rather than placing letterboxes. It should never be necessary to dig to find one. THAT should be a cardinal rule, IMHO.

That said, whenever remotely possible, I place my letterboxes without ANY digging. I've only had to scoop out some sand once.

-Mark
P8 F1 X0

In a message dated 3/30/01 5:37:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, dwilliam@snu.edu
writes:

<<
Perhaps I'm in a contrary mood this morning, so beware, but I was unaware
that there was a no digging policy. A few years ago someone was
experimenting with some sort of tube that could with a small hole be
plugged into the ground leaving the opening flush with the surface of the
ground. I don't remember any objections to the experiment. >>

I think "no digging" is in reference to hiding the box so that the hunter has
to dig it up. I have hid several boxes flush with the surface also. The
impact is less than moving rocks to cover the box. :o)
Mohmers

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:13:57 -0600, you wrote:

>I have used tupperware, but find that in some instances rodents chew on it
>just enough to chew through the seal ridge. Sometimes I find some
>inexpesive used ammo cans at a local army surplus store ($2 is a bit high,
>but I thought I'd experiment). These seem to work pretty well, they are
>rodent proof; if the seal is good, waterproof; and an ecological advantage
>is that they won't last forever unmaintained. They have enough space in
>them that they can be weighted so that they don't float away easily (good
>for placing near streams that flood seasonally). I'm not wedded to them,
>but those are some advantages over plastic.
>
>DW
>
Originally boxes on Dartmoor were all in ammo boxes, however since
Dartmoor is also used by the military for exercises, there have been
instances of boxers opening up ammo boxes on the moor expecting to
find a stamp and log book, and finding live ammunition. :-(
Recently the park rangers have been removing letterboxes contained in
ammo boxes and leaving a note in its place.
On the subject of the park management's attitude to letterboxing, they
seem on the whole to be quite supportive, providing one doesn't do
anythiing stupid like planting boxes in the numerous ancient monuments
on the moor.

Hope my thoughts are of interest

Steve Walls

I imagine the National Park Service as well as most local park
commissions would rule ANY kind of digging (other than by the park
sevice, they seem to do their share) strictly prohibited.
I just recently received an email from a guest boxer. It seems her
husband is a park ranger(.. just slightly peculiar since ). I have
extended an invite to approach to the metro park officials. I think
Letterboxing would be miles ahead to work with the park stewards (IMO).
I can envision a lot of benefit to the parks from volunteer LB groups or
individuals.
As far as private or non park land don't I think anything really
changes. There is always someone "there ahead of me". (ok off my soap box
now- I guess thats 3 cents worth).

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:06:29 EST mohmers@aol.com writes:
.. (re): ...a no digging policy. A few years ago someone was
experimenting with some sort of tube that could with a small hole
be plugged into the ground..."

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On our road/letterboxing trip through Wy.,Mt.,Utah,Idaho, Gwen & I came across some containers at a war surplus store in Idaho Falls. They are made of plastic,a little larger than a pack of cigarettes,olive drab,and cost 99 cents. They held "Decon" kits, and are waterproof. They seem to be perfect for letterboxing. I peeled off the label and sanded off the raised writing on the top, and one was placed in our Seal Beach Town Tour yesterday (clues to be posted soon). Check out your local surplus store. Don

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That sounds like a good price but they are a solid color. The State
park service in MD requested that clear containers be used. It is
probably a security issue. Anyway you might want to rethink the
bargin if you have to replace them all with clear containers in the
next year or so. Just a thought.
Squirrel


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Gwen and Don Jackson"
wrote:
> On our road/letterboxing trip through Wy.,Mt.,Utah,Idaho, Gwen & I
came across some containers at a war surplus store in Idaho Falls.
They are made of plastic,a little larger than a pack of
cigarettes,olive drab,and cost 99 cents. They held "Decon" kits, and
are waterproof. They seem to be perfect for letterboxing. I peeled
off the label and sanded off the raised writing on the top, and one
was placed in our Seal Beach Town Tour yesterday (clues to be posted
soon). Check out your local surplus store. Don
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]