Mary in Alameda Writes:

I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities. My husband
uses a power wheelchair. Of course there are a lot of letter box
sites he would not be able to visit.

******************************

Funny you should mention this. My partner, Robb, is recovering from a
spinal cord injury, and cannot do long hikes. But we planted a
letterbox at the Berkeley Aquatic Park yesterday.

I had some questions prior to Robb's injury regarding Atlas Quest's
definition of a handicap-access letterbox, and am still unclear if I
should list some of my boxes as such. A box that may be available to
a wheelchair user may not work for a person with poor vision, for example.

I know that there is a faction of letterboxers who aren't impressed by
drive-by letterboxing, but I have to say that once you've walked in
disabled shoes, it changes your outlook on everything. A short walk
for a disabled person is as much of an accomplishment as a long hike
is for an able bodied person.

Just because Robb can't manage much walking at this stage of his
recovery, why shouldn't he enjoy letterboxing? Goodness knows, we've
got Cabin Fever and want some diversions, and to participate in some
of our normal, pre-accident activities, even if in an abreviated fashion.

LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE DRIVE BY!!!!!

Many of my letterboxes in the SF Bay Area, and some in Central NY are
drive-by letterboxes that could be retrieved by a disabled person,
particularly if they had a friend with them to do the final step of
"scrounging around."

Lisascenic
http://howsrobb.blogspot.com/

I like this consideration. I've never understood what "drive-by"
means. It can mean different distances to different people. But,
when considering someone like Robb, or my mother with limited
walking distance ability, I can understand what a drive-by is. And,
a good thing they are, too. Many of my boxes could be considered
drive-by, when I think of it like this. Thanks for the insight.
Goose Chaser


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Lazar"
wrote:
>
> Mary in Alameda Writes:
>
> I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities. My
husband
> uses a power wheelchair. Of course there are a lot of letter box
> sites he would not be able to visit.
>
> ******************************
>
> Funny you should mention this. My partner, Robb, is recovering
from a
> spinal cord injury, and cannot do long hikes. But we planted a
> letterbox at the Berkeley Aquatic Park yesterday.
>
> I had some questions prior to Robb's injury regarding Atlas Quest's
> definition of a handicap-access letterbox, and am still unclear if
I
> should list some of my boxes as such. A box that may be available
to
> a wheelchair user may not work for a person with poor vision, for
example.
>
> I know that there is a faction of letterboxers who aren't
impressed by
> drive-by letterboxing, but I have to say that once you've walked in
> disabled shoes, it changes your outlook on everything. A short
walk
> for a disabled person is as much of an accomplishment as a long
hike
> is for an able bodied person.
>
> Just because Robb can't manage much walking at this stage of his
> recovery, why shouldn't he enjoy letterboxing? Goodness knows,
we've
> got Cabin Fever and want some diversions, and to participate in
some
> of our normal, pre-accident activities, even if in an abreviated
fashion.
>
> LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE DRIVE BY!!!!!
>
> Many of my letterboxes in the SF Bay Area, and some in Central NY
are
> drive-by letterboxes that could be retrieved by a disabled person,
> particularly if they had a friend with them to do the final step of
> "scrounging around."
>
> Lisascenic
> http://howsrobb.blogspot.com/
>

I always use wheelchair-accessible as the definition of handicapped-
accessible. My dad can't walk very well because of his WWII injury and
uses a cane, so I also consider the surface of the trail (pavement
versus gravel).

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa Lazar"
wrote:
> I had some questions prior to Robb's injury regarding Atlas Quest's
> definition of a handicap-access letterbox, and am still unclear if I
> should list some of my boxes as such. A box that may be available to
> a wheelchair user may not work for a person with poor vision, for
> example.

THE LETTERBOXES IN MANORVILLE , SUFFOLK COUNTY IN NEW YORK AT THE TRAIL
CENTER ARE ON A WHEELCHAIRE ACCESSABLE TRAIL. THE LETTERBOXES ARE GROUND LEVEL
SO THAT MAY BE A PROBLEM.

WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PLANTING A WHEELCHAIR ACCESABLE LETTERBOX.

STAR:W=S=DRR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Stellabaker123@... wrote:
>
> WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PLANTING A WHEELCHAIR ACCESABLE LETTERBOX.
>
> STAR:W=S=DRR
>
Gwen & I have a few letterboxes that can be found and retrieved by
those in wheelchairs, but the majority can only be retrieved with
assistance. That is the dilemma of the little handicapped signs that
is in use with AQ clues. Generally when we write clues we indicate if
the trail is stroller and/or wheelchair friendly. This really is
subjective as well as one of my hunting buddies has ALS and he can
participate in some hunting situations (with help). He has one of
those super duper off road wheelchairs and we let him carry the heavy
stuff.

Don

I have one box that is fully wheechair accessible.
http://www.letterboxing.org/BoxView.php?boxnum=20697&boxname=Stakeout

Choi

> WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PLANTING A WHEELCHAIR ACCESABLE
>LETTERBOX.

I have boxed with my daughter who is blind and I truly appreciate
descriptions like stroller friendly or paved paths in the clues. She
is a great person to take along - her memory is phenomenal and I don't
have to carry clues with me when we box. She remembers them and also
is very good at interpreting the more clever clues. She has also
accompanied me while planting boxes. I have a whole series called
"Laura's Childhood Luvs" that I hid with people like her in mind.
They are not necessarily wheel chair friendly but they are smooth
enough for a blind person to walk on without breaking her neck. It is
true that she will never be able to do all of the boxes that I do but
it is a fun activity for her and she gets just as excited as I do when
we find our box.

Jan of Team Little Dog


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, mmf1@... wrote:
>
> I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities. My
husband uses a power wheelchair. Of course there are a lot of letter
box sites he would not be able to visit.
> When we attended my mother's memorial in Des Moines, Washington, we
went to a letter box at a state park near the church the memorial was
held at.
>
> --
> Mary Marshall Fowler, Alameda,
> CA, US
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > There are 3 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. Thanks to all who participated in the letterbox research
- the results
> > are in!
> > From: "twobentriders"
> > 2. Re: Thanks to all who participated in the letterbox
research - the
> > results are in!
> > From: RMORGAN762@...
> > 3. Easter Egg Hunt Series - CT - clue changes
> > From: Donna Magner
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:22:05 -0000
> > From: "twobentriders"
> > Subject: Thanks to all who participated in the letterbox research
- the results
> > are in!
> >
> > Back in November you were invited to participate in a web-based survey
> > about letterboxing as part of a doctoral dissertation. Well, I have
> > now completed the data analysis and written the report of my findings.
> > To take a look at what I learned about the 355 participants in my
> > study, check out my blog at www.letterblogger.blogspot.com. I am
> > adding new information to the blog every day for the next two weeeks.
> > Thanks again to those who participated and supported me. Your
> > comments on the blog are encouraged. Be well and do good things.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:06:06 -0500
> > From: RMORGAN762@...
> > Subject: Re: Thanks to all who participated in the letterbox
research - the
> > results are in!
> >
> > Well done. I'd like to read that document sometime.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: twobentriders
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:22:05 -0000
> > Subject: [LbNA] Thanks to all who participated in the letterbox
> > research - the results are in!
> >
> > Back in November you were invited to participate in a web-based
survey
> > about letterboxing as part of a doctoral dissertation. Well, I have
> > now completed the data analysis and written the report of my findings.
> > To take a look at what I learned about the 355 participants in my
> > study, check out my blog at www.letterblogger.blogspot.com. I am
> > adding new information to the blog every day for the next two weeeks.
> > Thanks again to those who participated and supported me. Your
> > comments on the blog are encouraged. Be well and do good things.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:36:53 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Donna Magner
> > Subject: Easter Egg Hunt Series - CT - clue changes
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > One of my "obstacles" was moved, so I changed the clues a bit.
If you've
> > already printed them out, please destroy your copy and print again!
> >
> > Thanks and Enjoy!
> >
> > donutz716
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Travel
> > Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>

My almost 4 year old has gross motor and balance concerns, although he has
made tremendous progress over the last year. Hiking is part of his therapy
and he loves finding letterboxes. On a rare hike with my husband, we
figured that my son hikes about 1/2 as fast as we do. So those drive by
boxes that can be found in 15 minutes take us about 30 minutes to reach.
Add to that the fact that I have my 23 pound infant in a backpack, and we
get very slow indeed! : ) I really appreciate the drive by boxes because
they are about all we can handle.

Wyassup Lake

On 3/21/06, mmf1@comcast.net wrote:
>
> I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities. My husband uses
> a power wheelchair. Of course there are a lot of letter box sites he would
> not be able to visit.
> When we attended my mother's memorial in Des Moines, Washington, we went
> to a letter box at a state park near the church the memorial was held at.
>
> --
> Mary Marshall Fowler, Alameda,
> CA, US
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, mmf1@... wrote:
>
> I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities.

I don't know how you define disabilities, but I am legally blind.

Warrior Woman
sending this reply to you on a computer with a screenreader (JAWS)

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Warrior Woman"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, mmf1@ wrote:
> >
> > I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities.
>
> I don't know how you define disabilities, but I am legally blind.
>
> Warrior Woman
> sending this reply to you on a computer with a screenreader (JAWS)
>


Ahh, yes but with a PFX count many boxers would be envious of!

Don

I know I certainly would not mind at all having someone contact me and ask
about the path. My father was a paraplegic, so I understand the desire to
get out and DO things, with slight modifications. One of my boxing partners
has very bad knees, so she tends to plant boxes that are for those with
mobility challenges.



Maiden



_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Lynn
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:27 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Research



I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am also disabled. I use a power wheelchair, but don't have the means to
haul it around at the moment. So we will be going to letterboxes that I
can get to using my rollalator walker. (definition: not to far) Granted,
it will take me longer to get to the box but I am game.

My letterboxing accomplice also is limited in her ability to get around, so
as soon as we can find a small trailer to haul my wheelchair and her scooter
it will make a huge difference.

The person who introduced me to letterboxing is disabled, and she has gotten
a few others I know of started letterboxing who are disabled also.

The notations on the clues stating that the trails are stroller friendly
etc. are a huge help for someone in a wheelchair etc. If someone can get a
stroller through a trail, I more than likely can get my powerchair through
it. I remember reading a clue that mentioned a large tree across a trail,
and wondered if there would be any way around it. LOL We just have to look
at things a bit differently when trying to get someplace. Another clue I
read mentioned a creek you had to cross, so I figured I probably wouldn't be
able to get my chair across that.

I understand that you don't want to give out all the information, but
descriptions of things like the how easy it may be to cross that creek would
let me know if it might be possible or not. This was one thing, I was
wondering if the box owners mind someone contacting them and asking a
question like the above.

Sincerely,
Freebyrd

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i would not mind someone contacting me with those questions either. i should
think it would be important information for you to know.
smile
uneksia


-------Original Message-------

... This was one thing, I was wondering if the box owners mind someone
contacting them and asking a question like the above.

Sincerely,
Freebyrd

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Freebyrd,

Not only do I think box placers wouldn't mind such a question, I think
it's imperative that you ask it! We all box at our own risk, and
something that would be easy for my husband, is not easy for me, so
your questions should be specific to your abilities.

Another thing to keep in mind is that trail conditions are subject to
change at any time. I know there's a particular box I've made about 3
attempts over a 2 year period before finding. The first two hikes were
fine with limited problems, the third attempt was a huge difference, as
we had to bushwack our way in through portions of the trail that were
covered in debris fallen during a major storm that I had forgotten we
had. (we got the box, btw)

Another thing to keep in mind is that everyone needs to be constantly
monitoring the situation to make sure it's safe for their abilities.
Even able bodied people get injured or stuck on the trail (on a ridge,
in mud, skinny dipping across overflowing creeks- you get the picture)
when they push past their 'safe limit'.

I think box owners would be more than happy to answer your questions.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn" wrote:
> I understand that you don't want to give out all the information, but
descriptions of things like the how easy it may be to cross that creek
would let me know if it might be possible or not. This was one thing,
I was wondering if the box owners mind someone contacting them and
asking a question like the above.
>
> Sincerely,
> Freebyrd
>

You can always click on "contact the placer" in the clues. I think they will
answer you. I would.

STAR:W+S=DRR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<< I understand that you don't want to give out all the information, but
descriptions of things like the how easy it may be to cross that creek
would let me know if it might be possible or not. This was one thing,
I was wondering if the box owners mind someone contacting them and
asking a question like the above.

Sincerely,
Freebyrd
>>

I certainly wouldn't mind if anyone contacted me, but I'd personally be
hesitant to give much of an answer because handicaps can be so individual
that what one person can do, another might find impossible, and *without*
knowing the person asking the questions and *with* knowing how litigious a
society we have, I'd have to say that I'm honestly not sure how comfortable
I'd be attempting to advise them. Yes, there are waivers and warnings
given, but in general waivers often aren't worth nuttin' if a person wants
to sue. A placer would still have to hire a lawyer and defend themselves
and it would be a crapshoot as to whether the waiver would ultimately hold
up in court or not.

If a box was incredibly easy -- such as straight down a gravel walk and the
tree stump it was hidden in was right next to the trail -- well, that
wouldn't be hard to advise. :-) But trying to advise someone as to how
easy it might be to cross a creek? Or even changes in grades. Pippi &
Keith placed a very easy box last year that seemed like it should have been
very handicap accessible. Very easy gravel road for the walking. However
there was a gradual but rather severe (for the area) change in elevation.
Being gradual, it was very deceptive. Pippi put a warning about it in the
clues for any "out of shape" searchers, but she still received a nasty
complaint from a guy who had a heart condition. He got to the box just fine
going downhill but then had trouble getting back to his car again going
uphill, and was none too pleased.

So, for me, it would depend on the question(s) that the handicapped person
was asking. But I would always reply and at least let them know if I just
wasn't comfortable answering. Trying to judge how "easy" something is going
to be for somebody that I don't know would be difficult for me.

And like someone else said, conditions are always changing in many of the
types of locations where boxes are planted. I found a box yesterday that
had been planted at the very beginning of March adjacent to a wetlands area.
The tree that the box was behind was surrounded by water yesterday and I got
rather wet getting to it, which is fine with me, I'm used to walking thru
lowlands. But when the placer first put it there, I'll bet most of that
water wasn't around. I contacted the placer to let them know just in case
they didn't plan it that way, but haven't heard back. Which is fine. Just
so they know, in case they didn't when they planted it. The previous
finders either got frustrated with the water and just tossed the box back
behind the tree and didn't bother wading in to cover the box, or rain might
have washed away the cover for the box. But the way it was, the box was
plainly open to view. If we have the same drought conditions we've been
having these recent years, by middle of summer the box should be in dry
territory again and it'll have no trouble remaining under cover. :-)
That's a box that I would say would have been very handicap accessible when
it was first placed -- beautiful limestone walk almost right to the box.
Not now tho. A motorized wheelchair might need a tow truck to get back out
right now, unless it's an amphibious motorized wheelchair.

~~ Mosey ~~

Likewise, my wife has Lupus and she can't bound the trails as I can,
while I love to waltz up Seneca Rock, she would have to rent the horse.
I'll be listing a detailed trail report with the boxes I'm preparing
for this season. Here in Ohio we have parks that are 'hands off' and
protected and others where they cut down the trees for money.

Deer Creek park is part Golf course, Lodge, 'new growth' trail forest,
rented farm land and hunting lands. They love bulldozing old fence
lines every few years and 'improving' views for the tourists by cutting
trees along the roadways, trails get renamed for folks who are in
current favor. With things like this going on, the areas do change
frequently.

Wayne National Forest is the scene of timber cutting and long-wall
mining underneath, about 400 acres are proposed for private sale to
enhance 'local school money', this is in an area where land sells for a
few hundred dollars an acre and taxes would be under $5000 per year.


-----Original Message-----
From: Melanie
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:37:39 -0800
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Research

I know I certainly would not mind at all having someone contact me
and ask
about the path. My father was a paraplegic, so I understand the desire
to
get out and DO things, with slight modifications. One of my boxing
partners
has very bad knees, so she tends to plant boxes that are for those with
mobility challenges.



Maiden



_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Lynn
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:27 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Research



I wonder how many of the letter boxers have disabilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am also disabled. I use a power wheelchair, but don't have the means
to
haul it around at the moment. So we will be going to letterboxes that
I
can get to using my rollalator walker. (definition: not to far)
Granted,
it will take me longer to get to the box but I am game.

My letterboxing accomplice also is limited in her ability to get
around, so
as soon as we can find a small trailer to haul my wheelchair and her
scooter
it will make a huge difference.

The person who introduced me to letterboxing is disabled, and she has
gotten
a few others I know of started letterboxing who are disabled also.

The notations on the clues stating that the trails are stroller friendly
etc. are a huge help for someone in a wheelchair etc. If someone can
get a
stroller through a trail, I more than likely can get my powerchair
through
it. I remember reading a clue that mentioned a large tree across a
trail,
and wondered if there would be any way around it. LOL We just have to
look
at things a bit differently when trying to get someplace. Another clue I
read mentioned a creek you had to cross, so I figured I probably
wouldn't be
able to get my chair across that.

I understand that you don't want to give out all the information, but
descriptions of things like the how easy it may be to cross that creek
would
let me know if it might be possible or not. This was one thing, I was
wondering if the box owners mind someone contacting them and asking a
question like the above.

Sincerely,
Freebyrd

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

I've contacted box placers to ask question like yours. I don't know
if they minded, but I got an answer.
Goose Chaser


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn"
wrote:
>
> I wonder how many of the letter boxers have
disabilities.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I am also disabled. I use a power wheelchair, but don't have the
means to haul it around at the moment. So we will be going to
letterboxes that I can get to using my rollalator walker.
(definition: not to far) Granted, it will take me longer to get to
the box but I am game.
>
> My letterboxing accomplice also is limited in her ability to get
around, so as soon as we can find a small trailer to haul my
wheelchair and her scooter it will make a huge difference.
>
> The person who introduced me to letterboxing is disabled, and she
has gotten a few others I know of started letterboxing who are
disabled also.
>
> The notations on the clues stating that the trails are stroller
friendly etc. are a huge help for someone in a wheelchair etc. If
someone can get a stroller through a trail, I more than likely can
get my powerchair through it. I remember reading a clue that
mentioned a large tree across a trail, and wondered if there would
be any way around it. LOL We just have to look at things a bit
differently when trying to get someplace. Another clue I read
mentioned a creek you had to cross, so I figured I probably wouldn't
be able to get my chair across that.
>
> I understand that you don't want to give out all the information,
but descriptions of things like the how easy it may be to cross that
creek would let me know if it might be possible or not. This was
one thing, I was wondering if the box owners mind someone contacting
them and asking a question like the above.
>
> Sincerely,
> Freebyrd
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>