Though I have not read the contents of the database, I have read the
comments on the list with respect to its pros and cons. It seems
there is much confusion about what various terms mean, e.g. MIA or
MIA???, and members seem to be interpreting these terms differently.
No surprises here.

If the meaning of entries can't be trusted, then what is the point?
This seems less a case of "growing pains" and more of shortcomings
inherent in diluting the subjective and personal nature of each
person's letterboxing experience into a couple of words and assuming
that all readers will interpret them the way the writer intended.

In addition, quite a few people are posting that they do not want
their boxes mentioned at all. How will database users now or in the
future know who those people are? Another database for non-
participants in the data-base?

Perhaps, based on comments made so far, it is not too much to ask one
of the moderators to put up a poll so the list members can voice
their preference to keep the database or not,perhaps a simple Yes or
No, and then abide by the will of the people on the list. Once the
poll is closed, if the database goes, it goes (at least on the LbNA
talk list), and if it stays, those who are invested in it will use it
and those who are not,won't, much the same place that we are in right
now.

If the database stays, the only issue that remains is how to respect
the wishes of the growing list of letterboxers, myself included, who
do not want their boxes mentioned there at all.

Linda a/k/a Alafair

In response to below:

>Perhaps, based on comments made so far, it is not too much to ask one
>of the moderators to put up a poll so the list members can voice
>their preference to keep the database or not,perhaps a simple Yes or
>No, and then abide by the will of the people on the list.

I would also like to see a poll.


>If the database stays, the only issue that remains is how to respect
>the wishes of the growing list of letterboxers, myself included, who
>do not want their boxes mentioned there at all.
>
>Linda a/k/a Alafair
It seems the best (only?) way is to amend your clues to reflect your
wishes. It took me no time at all to do this for my one measly box, but
could mean quite a bit of work for others.

Debbie T., "the Bee"




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

--- Alafair wrote:
> Perhaps, based on comments made so far, it is not
> too much to ask one
> of the moderators to put up a poll so the list
> members can voice
> their preference to keep the database or not,perhaps
> a simple Yes or
> No, and then abide by the will of the people on the
> list. Once the
> poll is closed, if the database goes, it goes (at
> least on the LbNA
> talk list), and if it stays, those who are invested
> in it will use it
> and those who are not,won't, much the same place
> that we are in right
> now.
>
> If the database stays, the only issue that remains
> is how to respect
> the wishes of the growing list of letterboxers,
> myself included, who
> do not want their boxes mentioned there at all.

I was about to put up just such a poll, and discovered
that someone already did. I will try to make certain
that we periodically mention to the list that the poll
is running, and give fair warning of its closing date,
to try to get as many votes as possible.

Mike S.

=====
What I hate is ignorance, smallness of imagination, the eye that sees no farther than it's own lashes. -- Egyptian Book of the Dead, Chapter 45

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Ms Alafair,
With all due respect to you who has been a benefactor to the Nail
Family, I would like to express my opinion on the matter of a
database.

In my opinion, if a box placer does not want his/her boxes to be
subject to sit-reps, database reports, spoilers and the like, then
that person should not make the clues public. I believe that I have
a right to express my exprerience in a public forum and if the boxes
I have found have been made available to me by a public forum then I
have every right to report on them as I experience them, whether
found or not, whether I am correct in assuming missing or not. I
have the respect to not report a box as absolutely missing and I
also have the wisdom to not spoil a location, especially a mystery
one.

If I, as a box creator and placer, do not want my creations subject
to such reports I can limit who has access to the clues. This will
limit the number of people who will find the boxes but it will also
give me some control over that aspect. It also adds to the mystique
of the sport in some cases.

This is the risk in having boxes available to the general public:
public knowledge-public access.

Just my 2 cents.
Nailhead


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alafair" wrote:
> Though I have not read the contents of the database, I have read
the
> comments on the list with respect to its pros and cons.

Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful response to the on-
going debate with respect to the database and your caveat as this
pertains to public access to information. I think you've presented a
new perspective we haven't heard or considered before.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a person who
publishes letterbox clues, for example, to a public forum intended
for the dessemination (the LbNA site) and public discussion (the
Yahoo List-Serve)of letterboxes and letterboxing gives up their right
to restrict or forbid comment by their very publication of those
clues on such a public forum. Any person who belongs to the list-
serve (since there is no two-way communication function within the
LbNA site) may publicly comment on any matter discussed, clue
published or any other submission to that forum. Further then, the
only way to restrict or prevent any person who wishes to restrict
discussion of their clues in particular is to not publish them in
such a public forum.

The essence of this seems to border on something quasi-legal that I
feel I am not qualified to debate. I gladly defer to others to pick
up this thread who are more savvy in this area than I.

I do agree with you that while choosing to not publish ones clues may
limit the number of finders, it also ensures somewhat more control
over opportunities for public comment.

Hope your boys are still having fun finding that stamp.

Linda a/k/a Alafair





--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Nail Family"
wrote:
> ...
>
> In my opinion, if a box placer does not want his/her boxes to be
> subject to sit-reps, database reports, spoilers and the like, then
> that person should not make the clues public.
....
> This is the risk in having boxes available to the general public:
> public knowledge-public access.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> Nailhead
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alafair" wrote:
> > Though I have not read the contents of the database, I have read
> the
> > comments on the list with respect to its pros and cons.

I respectfully request finders/non-finders of the Psychokiwi letterboxes to
please email me about their status. I already keep a "last known" status
report on the clue web pages. I'm unlikely to remember to regularly check the
database and would hate for reports of damaged or missing boxes to go there
where I may not see them. I can see merit in posting a status report to the
database ONLY if attempts to contact the owner have been futile.

I've also been disheartened by some of the messages in the database that
reveal the contents of the boxes, such as describing the image or that the
book is hand-bound or that there are interesting artifacts in the area. For
me, the delicious "surprise" at the end is meaningful and important and to
have some inkling of what lies in wait diminishes the experience. I could just
not look in the database, but then I would have trouble checking for any
reports on my boxes...

For me, I'm willing to take the risk of being disappointed and frustrated to
then be able to revel in the victory of finally finding a dastardly box.

My $0.01

Judi