Where is Tolland County? What kind of lodgement/activities were you
thinking of? Because it is so late in the year for camping, I feel it
is quite important that the meeting spot be affordable for all. Our
members span a great range of age and disposable income. A nice feature
of the pub gathering last Fall was the range of accommodations
available, the family plans, the B&B aspect, and the off-season
discounts offered to us as a group. The Long Trail was the obvious
recreation choice right out the back door but several groups ventured
farther away. What are the nearby offerings ( other than Jays 199
letterboxes)?

Thank you for initiating the discussion, but I'd like to vote with
more info at hand.

Susan
in I wish the sun would come back Vermont

Hi folks. If you haven't voted for Susan's picture (#1), do it! She's
behind for some unexplainable reason, and I'm trying to get out the vote.
Just don't tell her I'm telling you this. She has the notion that it'd be
better to have strangers think her picture is best rather than just get
friends to vote for hers. While I agree, you can bet that the other people
are getting their friends to vote. So there you have it.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Poll
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:48:03 -0800
From: Sam Wilson
To: long_december_13@yahoo.com, martha.wilson@mail.ewu.edu,
wilsona@arczip.com, wjp5@icehouse.net


Hi, all. Susan recently drew a bit of fan-art for fun, and submitted it to a
contest this person was having to celebrate her website getting its 100,000th
hit. The person who's fanart gets the most votes gets a free commision from
this person. Here's a link to the poll:
http://user.tninet.se/~mul858u/party/
You can probably guess which is Susan. Somewhat unsurprisingly, I think hers
is the best and I don't really know why people are voting for the others.
(Especially #2. The art on the card was done by the owner of the website.
The person who made the picture just dropped it into what is probably a scan
of a Magic card. How lame!) So, you should vote for Susan, if you like it.
If you like one of the other ones better, though, you definitely shouldn't
vote. This isn't a democracy, dammit.

Sam

-------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I selected the wrong address from my addressbook. Please disregard
this message. Oh, the embarrassment!

Sam


On Friday 27 December 2002 04:46 pm, you wrote:
> Hi folks. If you haven't voted for Susan's picture (#1), do it! She's
> behind for some unexplainable reason, and I'm trying to get out the vote.
> Just don't tell her I'm telling you this. She has the notion that it'd be
> better to have strangers think her picture is best rather than just get
> friends to vote for hers. While I agree, you can bet that the other people
> are getting their friends to vote. So there you have it.
>
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Subject: Poll
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:48:03 -0800
> From: Sam Wilson
> To: long_december_13@yahoo.com, martha.wilson@mail.ewu.edu,
> wilsona@arczip.com, wjp5@icehouse.net
>
>
> Hi, all. Susan recently drew a bit of fan-art for fun, and submitted it to
> a contest this person was having to celebrate her website getting its
> 100,000th hit. The person who's fanart gets the most votes gets a free
> commision from this person. Here's a link to the poll:
> http://user.tninet.se/~mul858u/party/
> You can probably guess which is Susan. Somewhat unsurprisingly, I think
> hers is the best and I don't really know why people are voting for the
> others. (Especially #2. The art on the card was done by the owner of the
> website. The person who made the picture just dropped it into what is
> probably a scan of a Magic card. How lame!) So, you should vote for
> Susan, if you like it. If you like one of the other ones better, though,
> you definitely shouldn't vote. This isn't a democracy, dammit.
>
> Sam
>
> -------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately the poll is set up so that you can only choose one answer. There could be several answers that fit and fix the problem.

*Enhancement of the need to check out FAQS pages to find answers.

* Private communication. This could be noticed on the chatlist "I've got this."

*Direction via chatlist to appropriate locations,i.e.FAQS, and alternative sites.



While most new folks may not be sure where to go for info, my guess is they wouldn't be put off with multiple private responses. So several enthusiastic letterboxers could jump on the newby with their private responses. This current chatlist problem pales in comparison to what could occur if the present membership is doubled or tripled. Most of our 1600+ letterboxers do not post, but when total numbers are increased the number of chatlist posts will also increase. When that happens a simple solution would be to send a simple note out with www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html. While I'm no computer guru I would bet that there could be an easy ,almost automatic response set up that a member could click on to send the new folks this site.

Don


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How about this for a solution?

Since the list is already "first post moderated" perhaps we can have
the moderators send the FAQ (or link) to new posters with a note
something like:

"Please read the attached/linked FAQ for this list and notify us
when you have. Once you do so, you will be allowed to post to the
list."

This obviously will not completely solve everything but it should
help. I'm also not sure if the additional moderator work load is
prohibitive.

I made a similar suggestion awhile back. Please see below Bobby's post.


bcostley wrote:
How about this for a solution?

Since the list is already "first post moderated" perhaps we can have
the moderators send the FAQ (or link) to new posters with a note
something like:

"Please read the attached/linked FAQ for this list and notify us
when you have. Once you do so, you will be allowed to post to the
list."

This obviously will not completely solve everything but it should
help. I'm also not sure if the additional moderator work load is
prohibitive.


Date:Mon, 17 May 2004 16:15:53 -0000From:"Steve and Heidi" Add to Address BookTo:"Hikers_n_ Hounds" Subject:Re: [LbNA] Resources for New LBNA Members. All should take note!


Good idea, I have to ask Randy about it...-Steve --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Hikers_n_ Hounds wrote:> Can the links reference be included in the initial confirmation email that new people receive when they sign up for the list?> > Steve and Heidi wrote:To all members of this list:> > We've recently been discussing with a few other moderators how to > best assist the new members with their questions as they join > this 'big list'. We realize that some of the more experienced > members might get annoyed by seeing the same questions over and over > again, however these questions are part of the learning process; the > rate at which letterboxing continues to blossom means that these > questions will continue and the information will need to continually > be disseminated. > > In an effort to reduce the amount of flames thrown across the list we > have created a collection in the links section of this group > entitled "A collection
of resources for new letterboxers". Please > check out this section and bookmark it in your web browser. (Link at > bottom of message, or click "links" on the left side of the group > screen). > > We would encourage folks to do the following when a new member posts > questions that you feel can be answered with a standard answer (such > as a simple definition), etc: > *Reply to the post, but direct it towards that member's email &> *Refer them to the links section,> *or Answer the question privately,> *or Provide them with the tools to find the answer,> *or take note of this message # and supply that # to them! > > We hope that this may eliminate some of the flame wars on here, > answer the question being posed, and show members where to get > further information should they need help. Please feel free to add > links to the folder if you find another web page that may be helpful! > > > -Steve, Heidi, and Madras







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This can be done automatically - if an FAQ or a note with a link to the
FAQ is added to the files section, the moderator/s can choose to have
that sent automatically to each new member as they join. I help run
another large yahoogroups list and, while nothing will eliminate
questions, this helps rather a lot.

I'm in the camp who doesn't think they should be eliminated and that
public answers allow for multiple newbies (such as myself, lol) to
benefit from the single question. It also allows for debate on
questions such as the recent compass question where no answer is the
single correct one for everyone.

Here's the deal. No matter how many times a question is answered,
people will join after the answer is posted. The new folks will have
the same questions. An automatic FAQ will help, but those who wish
there was never another 'newbie' question posted just aren't going to
get their wish - it's just not how lists this large work in
reality........ The only way to avoid the questions is to not allow any
new folks in and that'd be a real shame to even consider.

.0000003 of a cent
pezpam


On Thursday, May 27, 2004, at 01:10 PM, bcostley wrote:

> How about this for a solution?
>
> Since the list is already "first post moderated" perhaps we can have
> the moderators send the FAQ (or link) to new posters with a note
> something like:
>
> "Please read the attached/linked FAQ for this list and notify us
> when you have. Once you do so, you will be allowed to post to the
> list."
>
> This obviously will not completely solve everything but it should
> help. I'm also not sure if the additional moderator work load is
> prohibitive.

>
> Here's the deal. No matter how many times a question is answered,
> people will join after the answer is posted. The new folks will
have
> the same questions. An automatic FAQ will help, but those who wish
> there was never another 'newbie' question posted just aren't going
to
> get their wish -

It's not the questions so much as the multitude and length of
answers. Simple posts with direction to links would be great, but a
complete thesis on the list concerning the why and where for of any
of the various nuances in our hobby is a bit tiring. Yup, I know
there always is the concept of hitting delete or changing the form
that you receive the list. Think of the future, and would you like
to see 3 ,4, or 5 times the number of questions asked on this list
that can be answered better, and more efficiently without impacting
the chatlist or turning the list into a forum to answer questions ?
I don't believe there is any letterboxer that wishes to close up
joining. In fact when ever I see a post from a new letterboxer in a
nearby area I usually contact them off list to encourage them.
Hopefully they will plant some boxes! I would probably do the same
thing even if they were sent to a FAQS page.

Don

On Thursday, May 27, 2004, at 02:34 PM, gwendontoo wrote:

>>
>> Here's the deal. No matter how many times a question is answered,
>> people will join after the answer is posted. The new folks will
> have
>> the same questions. An automatic FAQ will help, but those who wish
>> there was never another 'newbie' question posted just aren't going
> to
>> get their wish -
>
> It's not the questions so much as the multitude and length of
> answers. Simple posts with direction to links would be great, but a
> complete thesis on the list concerning the why and where for of any
> of the various nuances in our hobby is a bit tiring. Yup, I know
> there always is the concept of hitting delete or changing the form
> that you receive the list.

In this case, my honest opinion is that the delete key is there to be
used. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone, but if a post looks
like it's a response you've seen before or a long exposition of
something you aren't interested in, then you have the option to delete
it before reading the whole thing. Would it be great if each inbox was
full of emails that we wanted to read and no others? Sure, but the
emails each of us want to read are different and this is a large group,
so we're all going to get emails we are interested in and some we
aren't. The delete key takes much less of my energy than trying to get
1600+ people to all toe my line, assuming I spend the energy to figure
out exactly what the line is...... All I am saying is that from a
purely practical point of view, a large group is going to produce a
wide variety of emails and, imho, overall, that's a better thing than
to limit what can and cannot be posted.

> Think of the future, and would you like
> to see 3 ,4, or 5 times the number of questions asked on this list
> that can be answered better, and more efficiently without impacting
> the chatlist or turning the list into a forum to answer questions ?

Sure. If it means we have 3-5 times as many people hunting, creating,
planting, and mailing out boxes. Public answers will keep this number
down much more than private answers, but as I said, as each new crop of
boxers joins the group, they will not have seen the posts answering
previous questions. Some will hunt out answers, some will ask. There
are quite a few styles of learning and I'm not sure it's worth
discouraging new boxers because their learning style doesn't match
mine.......

> I don't believe there is any letterboxer that wishes to close up
> joining. In fact when ever I see a post from a new letterboxer in a
> nearby area I usually contact them off list to encourage them.
> Hopefully they will plant some boxes! I would probably do the same
> thing even if they were sent to a FAQS page.

I didn't mean to suggest that anyone actually wanted the list closed. I
doubt anyone does. I merely wanted to say that that's the only way
realistically to avoid 'newbie' questions being asked and answered
on-list. So long as we keep the list open, we will have questions show
up that have been asked before. As long as there are people who chat
and gather and such, the list will not become question-only, but
neither will it ever be question-free.

For the record, I think it's great that you, and others, encourage
folks. That's what it's all about. With a most friendly tone, I
recommend a deep breath and a counting-to-ten and a reach for the
delete key for anyone who actually gets upset by questions that have
been asked before. Realistically, they will be asked and someone(s)
will answer.


again, about .0000003 of a cent :-)
pezpam

(Since I've been informed that the 'Kick Me' sign is tattooed in my back permanently, I certainly hope my butt
toughens up real soon! (grin))

Here's an interesting thought..... Why should the wants/needs of the few outweigh the wants/needs of the many?
There's a vocal minority (And I include myself in that group) that are active on the mailing lists and a Majority that
are not. Just because a few don't want to be bothered by the same questions asked over and over and over again, why
should we stop answering questions? I for one believe that a person can exercise their own censorship if you will, by
not reading a post that's titled "What's a hitchhiker?" Why is that such a hard thing?

At the risk of pissing off every feminist on this group, I kinda think this debate is as useful as the age old debate
over, Toilet seat up or Toilet seat down. Women could just as well put the seat up when they were done as men can
put it down when they are done. Yet the debate still rages. And will continue to do so for the rest of time.

I don't think we should censor or stop anyone from asking anything at all on this list no matter how many times it's
been asked in the past. After all, this is the place where people come to learn about letterboxing, isn't it? And
that's one way to welcome new members isn't it?

If it comes down to closing this list to new people and/or stopping the questions then I'll say this: I don't like the
idea for some of the same reasons why I don't like My Documents, remote avatars, My Computer, vanity plates, mile long
URLs, %20, reality shows, and war. If that didn't make much sense, that is the point....

Let's all just get out there and box!

Steve of Team Rayvenhaus
rayvenhaus at lbworld dot org

I have a poll on my blog, that askes what is you favoite type of
letterbox. That is regarding difficuity. I am interested in what you
think. It is on the right side so you don't have go through the entire
blog.

http://bakersletterboxing.blogspot.com/

Thank you,

Baker